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Look, man gets caught, gets out on bond and faces trial. He is more angry at society because he got caught and has great pressure about doing time and knows he won't have the fun as before. Strikes out again at society usually worse. Usually the first time he gets caught is not the first crime he has commited. Don't let these type of people out on cheap bond, it's too risky.

I've noticed that it is rare for a drug lord to have his TV stolen. Why is that, I wonder?

And while out on bond, man busies himself eliminating the witnesses to his first crime before he has to face them in court.

Jesse, Simon B. & others who think causation identification and an emphasis on prevention has never and will never work - I encourage you to take a look at the criminal justice system in New Zealand. Utilizing a system of Restorative Justice which achieves accountability, restoration and reintegration, New Zealand has reached a point where their crime rates have dropped remarkably and they expend considerably fewer resources on incarceration and other types of punnishment.
In terms of execution serving as a deterrent - it does to the extent that a person who has been executed will commit no additional crimes. Of course, you have to bear in mind the fact that considerable research has shown the huge majority of murders are committed in the heat of passion and those persons will never commit another murder agian even if permitted to live. That's not true of all hoomicides, but it does cover the vast majority of them. Execution does not and will not deter others from commiting similar crimes any more that the threat of a speeding ticket will keep most people from speeding. People choose not to commit crimes for many reasons, most of which involve their ties to family and community and the personal moral code instilled by those ties. Strengthening those ties for the marganilized has been proven to reduce crime in a way that punnishment never has. That said, if you're looking to keep an offender from reoffending by way of executing him or her, I encourage you look at the pitfalls. To name a few: it's very timeconsuming and expensive (rightly so in view of due process concerns)and generally permits the "system' to revictimize the victims by keeping the case open rather than allowing for closure and the opportunity for healing (a number of studies validate this further impact on victims), it's not applied with equity in terms of race and socio-economic classifications, numerous documented cases of executing the factually innocent (can't undo that one), just to name a few.

I'm all for debate - but all I'm hearing here is a call for vengence - which in the end it does not deliver what it promises.

Drug lords do not need courts. They are beyond the law and have something called "street credit".

My idea, although highly illegal, is to take the street to the criminals. They respect violence and bodily harm.

In a past life, living on the streets in W. Belize, many a friend would occasionally get locked down for three squares and a lodging. Upon release, they are healthy and full of muscles. Usually got some schooling on how to accomplish other crimes and definitely networked themselves with other cons in and out.

But to get locked down in Belize, you need to be found guilty. This is not easy, the evidence needs to be overwhelming. This is in a country where evidence (a hand gun) was sold by the police to the police during their "Cash for Guns" program. Hellooooo!!!! to those in denial, the system doesn't work, at leat here and for the present.

What will work is taking a rude bwoy style to these wanna be thugs (amatuers is all they are, although bold). It's the only way. You will see this disgusting element slowly vacate our precious isle, with broken limbs and swollen faces. The word will be sent throughout Belize, "No go da Caye, deh wa [#%!] you up!"

And ya know what, some of the innocent will get an unwarranted beat down. What do they call it now, collateral damage? Either that or we become a suburb of Belize City and we all starve.

Sorry in advance to you and your folks if you didn't deserve it. You should have turned in the guilty.

I'm sure the residents of Nagasaki and Hiroshimi felt the same way as their skin melted off their bodies.

SIN

I still believe that Belize has to take baby steps before they tackle something like this.... I can just imagine a big-shot taking a bribe and ordering an execution! After all, THEY have allowed laws to be broken, and covered them up. The courts are basically unfunctional. You can't find two people (workers in the system) that can tell you the laws, much less enforce them.
I remember a few years ago, I had to see a government official to get his signature. I was told that an additional FEE was required prior to his granting my request. He couldn't show me any written documentation that this was an actual Fee. But, I had to pay it, to get my goods. Was that a crime? Absolutely. But, for years, people have just accepted it as a way of life. I have heard business people say, "you have to do it to stay in business", so it continues.
More taxes? Where are the taxes that are currently being paid? CERTAINLY not going toward crime prevention, as the government is allowing and accepting crime as a way of generating more revenue.
Some of you might know of the situation I'm currently involved in. When a committee in the US examined the case against the GOB, they found over 19 BZ laws that had been blatantly broken, and ignored by the courts. In addition, 4 government agencies allowed unlawful actions, in fact, promoted those actions.
So, what does this say? Don't bother taking your problems to court. They don't uphold the law. The police certainly don't uphold the law. The GOB doesn't uphold the law, so....... what does that leave? A paradise that has allowed parasites to come in and take over.
Who can fix it???? Who knows!!!! I know it can't be done by gringo's. And I know of FEW Belizeans who would "rock the boat". So, I don't see this as being a fixable problem in the near future.

This has proven to be a very useful discussion and I have found reading everyone's views really interesting.

Crockhunter, you are right in saying that 'in theory' if everyone had a tv no one would need to steal them, but given human nature, some people would want more than one TV and so the problem would continue. That said, resources are less valuable when plentiful.

Actually while capitalism has it's drawbacks, theft and crime are still common in communist societies. So we get back to human nature. We also know that genetics, foetal health, child rearing, role models, parenting, peer pressure and a whole host of other issues will determine an individual's willingness to comply with certain laws. And interestingly, most people (outside of the most virtuous and forever may they remain on their pedastal) have a sliding scale of laws they believe should be obeyed. I agree that drugs are a huge problem for society but there is so much big money involved at every level, I doubt much will ever be done to truly resolve the problem on anything other than a local scale.

Jesse I think Lawlucci has elaborated magnificently on this but I will add that there is a host of research done that shows that better education and employment opportunities definitely contribute to a reduction in crime. As Lawlucci also points out, many serious violent crimes are committed in the heat of passion and those are impossible to legislate for. For most people involved in petty crime as young people, boredom, lack of opportunity and adult guidance as well as lack of decent role models are all contributory factors. I realise that it is terribly idealistic looking, but nothing else is working is it?

Denny that reminds me of a Monty Python film.

Capt Jeff - power to the people. I agree with you to a certain extent and if we return to the wild wild west, I'll be one of the first to guard my property in said manner.

Simon, while I understand your views I wouldn't bet that the crime would not be committed again. Death is not a good deterrent. Look at suicide bombers. They are lining up for the job. If you place no value on your life, it doesn't matter if you die for committing a crime. I have spoken to young offenders about this and they say, 'if I get away with it, I'll have more of what I want; if I get caught and sent down, I'll get a roof and three square meals, if I get killed, well my life isn't worth living how it is anyway'. It's easy to say people can make choices about crime but that is only if they have the information necessary to make those choices. Many young people do not feel that they have a choice. If they had good role models they may see other options open to them.

Rykat as you have contributed nothing constructive except being personally offensive, I won't bother replying to you in future.

Now Danny, you make a very good point. What is it with letting people out on bail? I don't get that either.

Seashell that is because their tv's are usually so bloody huge that no one could carry them away anyhow.

Sir Isaac - I have to say that I almost agree with you.

Lawlucci - well presented!

Just saw the police truck with about 10 wannabe thugs loaded in back headed southbound. Hopefully to the water taxi for a one way ride.

This isn't the US it's a borderline third world country; things are different here and will be for the foreseeable future. SIN is right a damn good beating is in order for a lot of these thugs; it's the only thing they understand and respect. If you had to look over your shoulder every time you made a false move you'd be pretty quick to move on.

Orange Walk used to be the Wild West in the early 80's until the community took things into their own hands and resolved the problem. To this day it is nothing like it was back then when you had to dodge the bullets on the main street.

The problem is fixable; it will just offend some sensibilities to do it. Stop the current problems now and then look at long term solutions to prevent re-occurrence.

Simon, as usual, I concur.

Hope that is a one-way trip for the thugs.

Simon,

I don't think it will offend many sensibilities actually, I think people will feel vilified and their vengeance part way satisfied, but yes, it would be far better to try to find a way to prevent it from happening again than to have to deal with the consequences. Good luck to the local police. I hope that they get the support they need.