AmbergrisCaye.com Home Forums Talk Belize Chat Area Marijuana, the wonder drug

A new study in the journal Neurology is being hailed as unassailable proof that marijuana is a valuable medicine. It is a sad commentary on the state of modern medicine that we still need "proof" of something that medicine has known for 5,000 years.

Lester Grinspoon, an emeritus professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, is the coauthor of "Marijuana, the Forbidden Medicine."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/01/opinion/edgrinspoon.php

Marijuana, the wonder drug
Lester Grinspoon
The Boston Globe
Thursday, March 1, 2007
CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts: A new study in the journal Neurology is being hailed as unassailable proof that marijuana is a valuable medicine. It is a sad commentary on the state of modern medicine that we still need "proof" of something that medicine has known for 5,000 years.

The study, from the University of California at San Francisco, found that smoked marijuana was effective at relieving the extreme pain of a debilitating condition known as peripheral neuropathy.

It was a study of HIV patients, but a similar type of pain caused by damage to nerves afflicts people with many other illnesses including diabetes and multiple sclerosis.

Neuropathic pain is notoriously resistant to treatment with conventional pain drugs. Even powerful and addictive narcotics like morphine and OxyContin often provide little relief. This study leaves no doubt that marijuana can safely ease this type of pain.

As all marijuana research in the United States must be, the new study was conducted with government-supplied marijuana of notoriously poor quality. So it probably underestimated the potential benefit.

This is all good news, but it should not be news at all. In the 40-odd years I have been studying the medicinal uses of marijuana, I have learned that the recorded history of this medicine goes back to ancient times.

In the 19th century it became a well-established Western medicine whose versatility and safety were unquestioned. From 1840 to 1900, American and European medical journals published over 100 papers on the therapeutic uses of marijuana, also known as cannabis.

Our knowledge has advanced greatly over the years. Scientists have identified over 60 unique constituents in marijuana, called cannabinoids, and we have learned much about how they work. We have also learned that our own bodies produce similar chemicals, called endocannabinoids.

The mountain of accumulated anecdotal evidence that pointed the way to the present and other clinical studies also strongly suggests there are a number of other devastating disorders and symptoms for which marijuana has been used for centuries.

They deserve the same careful, methodologically sound research.

While few such studies have so far been completed, all have lent weight to what medicine already knew but had largely forgotten or ignored: Marijuana is effective at relieving nausea and vomiting, spasticity, appetite loss, certain types of pain and other debilitating symptoms. And it is extraordinarily safe - safer than most medicines prescribed every day.

If marijuana were a new discovery rather than a well-known substance carrying cultural and political baggage, it would be hailed as a wonder drug.

The pharmaceutical industry is scrambling to isolate cannabinoids and synthesize analogs and to package them in non-smokable forms. In time, companies will almost certainly come up with products and delivery systems that are more useful and less expensive than herbal marijuana.

However, the analogs they have produced so far are more expensive than herbal marijuana, and none has shown any improvement over the plant nature gave us to take orally or to smoke.

We live in an antismoking environment. But as a method of delivering certain medicinal compounds, smoking marijuana has some real advantages: The effect is almost instantaneous, allowing the patient to fine-tune his or her dose to get the needed relief without intoxication.

Smoked marijuana has never been demonstrated to have serious pulmonary consequences, but in any case the technology to inhale these cannabinoids without smoking marijuana already exists as vaporizers that allow for smoke-free inhalation.

Hopefully the UCSF study will add to the pressure on the U.S. government to rethink its irrational ban on the medicinal use of marijuana - and its destructive attacks on patients and caregivers in states that have chosen to allow such use.

Rather than admit they have been mistaken all these years, federal officials can cite "important new data" and start revamping outdated and destructive policies.

Such legislation would bring much-needed relief to millions suffering from cancer, AIDS, multiple sclerosis, arthritis and other debilitating illnesses.

Well done Marty. Too bad the drug companies don't have their lobbyists working on it (but why would they, I thought for a minute they had the public's best interest at 'heart').

SIN

i personally think it was made illegal for du pont et al. too much good stuff made from hemp they wanted made from oil.

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!

Prohibition, like socialism, fails every time it's tried.

EEEEEZE!........pass the dutchie on the lef han side! Here ya' go Rykat, remember, puff puff pass.

you think i'm crazy rykat? here's insanity

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8NS507G4&show_article=1

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - A California woman whose doctor says marijuana is the only medicine keeping her alive can face federal prosecution on drug charges, a U.S. appeals court ruled Wednesday.

The case was brought by Angel Raich, an Oakland mother of two who suffers from scoliosis, a brain tumor, chronic nausea and other ailments. On her doctor's advice, she eats or smokes marijuana every couple of hours to ease her pain and bolster a nonexistent appetite as conventional drugs did not work.

The Supreme Court ruled against Raich two years ago, saying that medical marijuana users and their suppliers could be prosecuted for breaching federal drug laws even if they lived in a state such as California where medical pot is legal.

Because of that ruling, the issue before the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals was narrowed to the so-called right to life theory: that marijuana should be allowed if it is the only viable option to keep a patient alive.

Raich, 41, sobbed when she was told of the decision and said she would continue using the drug.

"I'm sure not going to let them kill me," she said. "Oh my God."

Although the three-judge appeals panel refused Raich's request to block enforcement of the 1970 Controlled Substances Act, it left open the possibility that if she were arrested and prosecuted, she might be able to argue that she possessed marijuana as a last resort to stay alive, in what is known as a "medical necessity defense."

"I have to get myself busted in order to try to save my life," Raich said.

I like it.

I sure hope that Rykat or his loved ones (if he has any) never get into this position. Would he just tough it out to avoid the "killer weed"?

Jesse, we still do have a few Archie Bunkers left in the World. Thank God we are in the new Millenium!

If GWB and Chavez and Kim and the angry man from Iran got together and smoked a bong full, we would all be at peace and all the junk food companies stock would sky rocket! People would eat more, drive slowers, care more, worry less, less stress, live longer, purchase more food supplies, farmers make more money, stores sell more and extra money would be available to help the poor.

SIN

Sure don't have to say anything here, the rectums are puckering on their own!
C'mon keep it going, very entertaining! Moe, Larry and Curly!

Go ahead, clip it, couldnt resist.

More wisdom from Archie...

seems no different to me as someone who has never had sex saying that sex is dirty, ugly, painful, shameful, and a crime against nature.

you compare these guys (whom i respect) to moe, larry, & curley? how then are you not akin to the ostrich with his head in the sand pretending not to see what he doesn't want to? or the guy with his fingers in his ears saying "la la la i'm not listening"?

if one is not informed, maybe one should keep his comments to himself.

Sweet Jane: Remember Archie Bunker?

Your first sentence, SJ, is undecipherable dribble! Read it, think about what your saying. Totally Clueless! And after having read the other three comments, Moe, Larry and Curly is a compliment! JMHO

I have known a few potheads in my time, and a lot of them were not productive members of society, some were functional, and some were on their way to other things. I can see where "recreational" use should definitely be unlawful, but I am of the mind that many useful drugs are strictly controlled. Pot should be one of them, and medicinal use should definitely be allowed. I fear the problem here is strictly monetary. How can you market something that just about anyone can grow like a ghia pet. Unfortunately, the risk of abuse in enormous. Again, a catch 22.

Bobber,
I could agree with medicinal use if: Who's monitoring the medicinal use?
Frankly, I don't give a squat what you do in the privacy of your own home. Smoke a 6'X 3' joint everyday from 6 am till 5:59 am who cares. The problem is when you walk out that door your sorry a** becomes MY problem and I have no intention of dealing with YOU.
Marty, for every example of Angel Raich you could produce I could find one for a mother who buried a 15 year old daughter that was scraped up by shovel at a car accident caused by her pothead 16 year old boyfriend.
You find a way to control it, legalize it. In the meantime, ain't gonna happen.

This one quote is really cute:
"We live in an antismoking environment. But as a method of delivering certain medicinal compounds, smoking marijuana has some real advantages: The effect is almost instantaneous, allowing the patient to fine-tune his or her dose to get the needed relief without intoxication".
Mental picture: Moe, Larry and Curly with head bandages and crutches all suckin on the same Cheech and Chong mega-joint.

Love,
Archie

You have an extremely valid point, Rykat. Jesse, calling names is so stereotypical, quite Archie Bunkerish in itself.

Is there a medical use for booze? Is booze good for you? I know ten alcoholics to every one pothead, and the potheads usually are happier with their lives and have better families (fact). Time Magazine proclaimed Bob Marley as the most influential person of the MILLENIUM (I think he smoked weed?). I think most non-bigots would claim that Bob was a contributing citizen of the World. But then again, the uneducated probably consider him a militant wild man, for those folks, we leave them to God.

Ronald Reagan was also someone who didn't have much ambition. Must have been that wacky tobacky, stupid rope smoker.

It is encouraging though to know that new generations can change the direction of society with new ideas. Embrace the these new ideas or die with the old ones. Change is good or we would all still be living in caves (like Rykat).

Pass the blunt.

SIN

Bobber, "If the cap fits, then wear it". - Bob Marley

SIN, Jesse. Please, GIVE us some new ideas that will work. Have any? Or do you just prefer to point fingers and call names. If you claim to be progressive, it has to mean something indicating you are attempting to build rather than just tear down.
P.S. Cap fits fine. I prefer to wear it with the bill forward to protect my eyes from the sun, rather than backward to keep the rain from running down the back of my neck when I am too bewildered to come in out of the rain.

UH....now I get it SIN. How could I have been so stupid.
You mean:

God is Love

Love is Blind

Ray Charles is Blind

Ray Charles is God

Got that thinking now. Back to the cave.

Geez! Seeya...
I'm gonna have a more intellegent conversation with my dog.

And, if you "fine-tune" your dose, he'll probably talk back!

New idea? Legalize drugs and drop the taboo. Tax it, generate revenue, set guidlines as with tobacco and alcohol. It's a real no brainer. The war on drugs has been long lost (unless you are an ostrich, thanks SJ). Why did they repeal prohibition.

Families instill values in their children to stay away from harmful drugs. NOT THE STATE. Blame families for neglecting their children not a law that prohibits smoking weed. Weed, coke, speed, xanax (just to begin with) is available in every school across the nation, more so when Nancy started her glorious war on drugs, when I was in school. If you can't teach your children, nephews and grand children not to take harmful drugs, do you think teachers and politicians can?

My parents taught me to stay away from grease laiden fast food. It is bad for you, but legal. I choose to eat wholesome food and avoid being a fat ass because of my values and love for my health and life. If someone chooses to fill himself with shit, guess what, is is the "land of the free". I choose not to smoke cigarettes. They stink, turn your fingers yellow, makes your environment stink, they are expensive and will shorten my life. I do not need the state to protect me, I do have a brain (my parents smoked). I choose to drink alcohol on a weekly basis and get drunk at times. I know it is not good for my liver and costs a bit down here in Belize. My choice (my parents didn't drink much). I've experimented with drugs and enjoy the relaxing feeling offered by marijuana, as an adult I make this choice although illegal in my own home. I choose not to drive or work while under the influence of THC. I avoid other drugs that some may partake of. I would say alcohol was the greatest so called "gateway" drug since I usually drink in bars where others smoke, eat greasy bar food, smoke weed and use other drugs. But I am an adult with a brain and can choose what I can handle.

Addictions are many, singling out which substances should be legal based on business profits is wrong in a democracy, for the people. Restricting people's freedoms will only cause the underworld to make huge profits, make the drugs more desired and cause needless deaths on both sides of the battle.

"Legalize it and I'll advertise it" - Peter Tosh

SIN

Well, they'll stone ya when you're trying to be so good,
They'll stone ya just a-like they said they would.
They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to go home.
Then they'll stone ya when you're there all alone.
But I would not feel so all alone,
Everybody must get stoned.

Love that Bob!

"New idea? Legalize drugs and drop the taboo". OK then define where the "line is drawn".

www.odysseyhouse.org/News/bht1002.html

"Children don't do as you say, they do as you do" - Rykat

SIN, therein lies the problem. You consider yourself to be quite intelligent, in control of your life, and for the most part above the riff raff of humanity. You may very well be all that. How about the lesser beings that do not have the intelligence and control, not to mention a trust fund, to handle it gracefully. Do you want to give them a loaded gun? Or do we need two sets of laws, one for you and one for them? Who decides who is the "them"?

Hasn't the topic of marijuana been discussed ad nauseum on this board? If one chooses to smoke, so be it. Doesn't make that person bad, a pot head, a loser, a doper. There are far worse problems in society as a whole, than pot smoking - #1 is alcoholism, followed by prescription drugs and meth. These drugs destroy and/or end far more lives than pot could ever touch.

Well, in Cuba there is no drug abuse (along with freedom). I think we agree on that. Extreme example I realize. But you can see the point.

I like the loaded gun thing. What kind of society will allow the purchase of a automatic pistol, to almost anyone, with the sole manufacturing purpose of taking another's life (killing) and then not allow you to smoke a naturaly grown, organic plant that provides relief to the sick and a mild tranquilizing effect on others?

Either ban everything that can harm human life or realize that you can not forcefully protect us from ourselves. Marijuana and cocaine have been illegal for years and the abuse rate continues to grow. The definition of insanity is to continue doing the same thing and expecting a different result (Albert Eistein).

Amsterdam and Copenhagen should be full on dead beat drug addicts with a fetish for prostitutes according to your line of reason.

Is is better to die from a fried liver or cough to death on lung cancer or get shot from a drunk with a gun. How many are killed on our nation's highways from drunk drivers? Why is it legal to drink and not smoke weed. What if we drink marijuana tea? Or eat mushrooms? Being a responsible citizen in knowing your limits and not jeapordizing your's and other's safety when enjoying your vice of choice (alcohol, thc, tobbacco, gambling, sex).

More to come.

SIN

Doctor's smoke it
Nurses smoke it
Judges smoke it
and even the lawyer too...Peter Tosh

so, make it legal and there will be less or no abuse? The gun issue. Unlike Michael Moore portrays, you cannot walk into a bank and walk out with a gun. In totalitarian societies, the first necessary step is to disarm the populace. This was foreseen in the Constitution. I would rather have my .45 by my bedside in case of an intrusion than to rely on 911, the after the fact cleanup squad. So, ban everything that is harmful, what a life. Ban everything that is unhealthy. Fast food is bad for you, but does it affect your neighbor if you get fat? No, just bothersome for your seatmate on an airplane.

Aahh yes, responsible citizens. We have a pile of those. If we had many more of them, we wouldn't need guns and we would not need as many restrictive laws. Laws (and maybe guns)are more necessary because of so many that consider their citizenship a right and not a privilege.

OK, now I'm bored with the subject also. My opinion is worth every bit as much as anyone elses.

LaurieMar, if a persons work or home life suffers, they could be tagged with those names, much like alcoholic. You can drink without abusing it, just as you may smoke without abusing it. But, if your performance suffers, you may be labeled. Just my opinion. Sometimes people who are impaired are the last to notice it.

What about the deadly cancer sticks(cigarettes)? Those are legal and have been proven to be severely detrimental to not only the smoker but to his neighbors as well. Why isn't that illegal!!

Kids do as their friends do. Instilling morals in your children and guidance may make the difference. Lying to your children about how bad marijuana is for them and society ultimately will backfire when they realize the truth. If weed really isn't so bad, then the other drugs must not be so bad also. We are in a global village now with smarter and more tech. advanced children then when you and I grew up or ever before for that matter.

Drinking after you turn 21 isn't so exciting cause' it's legal and the rush or rebelling is not there. Still fun but no rush and no peer pressure.

If people have a sickness (addiction) then they should steer clear of addicting substances all together. If they are unable to help themselves, they require assistance from friends and/or professionals. Betty Ford was built for Betty Ford, not a pot head.

SIN

How does smoking a splif affect your neighbor? Fast food creates people with HUGE health problems (many poor) and bogs down the health care system that is in a world of hurt! Obesity is a major problem in the US. But the corporations make huge profits and shareholders fatten their pockets as people kill themselves slowly and then rely upon medication to treat the ailments, again to profit corporations again. So after corporate America fills you with shit, gives you cigarettes and booze and then medicates you until you die, they keep something that is proven to be good for you illegal. Kinda like a poor man's version of the Matrix. Consume, consume, consume. That sounds like a sound plan for the future.

SIN

Imagine if the founding fathers could see:

Teachers being paid $35k/yr and athletes being paid $35million/yr

Assault rifles being legal and hemp illegal

Herbal medicines illegal and heart killing junk food legal and in the school system

SIN

No doubt, Bobber, I agree.

I see this as a macro issue. What is the role of government in regulating the behavior of individuals -- period?

Once you start saying that government can regulate individual behavior because of the "chance" they may do harm to someone else -- you absolve individuals of responsibility for their own actions and get into the muddy waters of this whole debate.

- No government regulation of individual liberty.
- Strong government regulation of activity that impacts the liberty of others.

I raise my hand. I am an advocate of marijuana (the green bud type, preferably). But, can't remember the last time I ate fast food (its been years and years), as it upsets my stomach. My best buddy is a cancer survivor (4 years now) and her oncologist advised her to smoke away (and I ain't talking cigs!).

What country has a death penalty for drunk driving? No crime for being drunk though. (Albania?, Romania?) I betcha won't drive drunk will ya?

I agree with you Otter 100%!!!

Happy Day!

SIN

SIN, will you make up your mind. Either be a liberal or a conservative. You can tell the gov to stay out of your life and leave you alone. Make everything legal, and depend on the intelligent folk to do the right thing.

Except guns, and except cigs, and except things that make you sick. And the things that offend you personally. And stupid people. Pretty soon we can weed out all those damn folks with blue eyes.

The absolute enemy of us all is human nature and the variations thereof. Have a nice day. Save a whale.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm bacon cheese burger (hold the lettuce) from Wendy's - yummy!!!

Ya Bobber, stupid people should be illegal.

MMMMmmmmmmm. I will sneak in, in the dead of night, avoid the fast food police, and enjoy!!!.

Things will be different when I am King (but not until then).

mmm Burger King?

Nope, not enough f-a-t. I was refering to the regal type of king, the off-with-their-heads guy. My point being, argue all you want, either everyone is right or no one is right. The fervor with which you pursue your ideas has absolutely nothing to do with their validity. All views are welcome. The blind men and the elephant. We are each a product of our genetics and lifes experience, hence our different views on all subjects.

Vacuum sucks

Seriously, I admire your logic.

Not conservative or liberal, don't know the difference. I like Guliani though but not the democrats.

SIN

to deny there are medical uses for marijuana is ludicrous

I totally agree Marty. I have a friend with a rare form of arthritis an it's the ONLY thing that'll take away the pain at times.

This is a lively debate and I will toss in my 2 cents. I can relate with Rykats comment about teenagers getting stoned and killing someone on the road. I had a family member do that...and it still haunts me.

I do not smoke weed personally....but I am really sick and tired of the US government telling me what I can do. I certainly think it should be legalized for medical use...and possibly more. As others have already mentioned, alcohol and cigarettes are legal.

If you really want to look at what is causing the USA billions of dollars...it is obesity. According to recent report this is the #1 cause of health problems and costs in the US. So should we tell people what they can and cannot eat? Absolutely not...my point is that overweight people are a much greater health problem and expense than marijuana smokers.


I am for less government interference....let people do what they want...but hold them responsible for their actions. Smoking a joint at home is not harmful....driving a car while doing this can be harmful.

here's my 2 cents:
i never woke up in the morning sorry for what i did the night before because i smoked pot. same cannot be said about alcohol.

Lively, but tiring debate. If you would really like to see the sh** hit the fan, saw this on FNC today( an interview with a person from this group) Probably shouldn't post here but was truly disturbed when I saw it. Could understand no comments.
www.4exhale.org/support/cards/index.php

Rykat, I'm sure you are cool to hang out with, cause' you like Belize but look around man...

I'm watching US TV and I see 11 year olds with addictions! Keeping drugs illegal is not working and only making reasons for overspending in the US budget, liberal or conservative, it's costing millions in cash and much more in blood.

Changes need to be made, to curb abuse and to develop control.

SIN

k....maybe i INhaled too many times...but what the F(*& does Rykats link have to do with POT smoking? its about abortion....WHOLE other debate, and NOT EVEN REMOTELY tied to pot smoking...

i am sure that no one is saying that POT smoking is closely tied to ABORTION? surely, no one would argue pot plays a more integral part in unwanted pregnancies han alcohol.......would they???

Interesting comments and information on the issue:


William F Buckley Jr. on Marinjuana
http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200406291207.asp

Christians for Cannibis
http://christiansforcannabis.com

Nevada Conservatives Against the War on Drugs
http://www.motherjones.com/news/update/2006/08/conservatives_against_war_on_drugs.html

And one of my favourites

Reefer Republicans
http://www.reeferrepublicans.com/

Making this stuff legal would cure the addiction problem, I don't personally think so. Medically, it should be a viable option. Bottom line, whatever you choose to do, you are responsible for your own actions and must bear the consequences. If you choose to puff, or drink, or eat and it does not affect anyone else, should be no problem. If your addiction or lifes choices cause problems or a burden on others, then you should be taken to task.

hmmmm, can tell by the last paragraph in the W F Buckeley article that someone down there (besides collyk) is reading conservative authors - that's a good sign.
I fail to see how legalization is going to remove 11 year olds with addictions from anyone's TV, but what do I know.
Lara,
that site had nothing to do with the conversation, just happen to see it and put it in there. Sorry if I offended anyone posting it there.It was troubling.

maybe Ry's link didnt work for me...all i saw was i can send a card. i had an abortion at 20. i hold zero regrets. it was a very wise and brave decision for a young girl who made a mistake with her future husband. a girl who went on to marry that man, be a mother of two, when she was emotionally and financially stable and ready to support them. so, was there a point to that? is it better to have women having babies they dont want with men who dont care about them? i wonder if any of these unwanted pregnancies had anything to do with alcohol use...

to the obesity issue, i think you guys are dead on. some people cannot control themselves...that is their deal. i dont necessarily eat healthy, but i do not touch fast food anymore. i dont agree with it, but it doesnt mean i am rallying to criminalize it.

let's look at stress for a minute. my understanding is that stress is found to be a link in more and more illnesses every day. i'll even go out on a limb to say that stress is a killer. our society may be one of the most stressed out societies in history, as we are pressured to be things we are notand posess things we dont care for. we feel pressure that others in our affluent area look down on us because we have a small house and i dont drive a navigator or have a 52" plasma. it causes us stress because we are happy with what we have but it is still judged by outsiders. (go, USA). we feel stress because our beliefs are shunned by our material society. hmmmm, what could be used to relieve stress after a tough day? couldn't something be used to take us down a notch, chill us out a bit? maybe something natural that has been used around the world for centuries? naaah, that's illegal, cuz the paper industry didnt want hemp to affect their profits.

smoking is a social thing too. i know few who prefer to smoke alone. in the right environment, it can be a spiritual experience. (is drinking?). in the last dope thread, i said i knew many (and i mean MANY) people of my generation in my conservative and vastly republican area who smoke up on weekends. i also see them get totally sloshed on alcohol. then they go back to their white collar jobs and put 'vote republican' signs on their huge lawns.

we already established driving under the influence of anything, even prescribed meds, should be highly discouraged.

as for kids, i was one once. kids are drawn to do what they aren't supposed to. when my mom said don't play by the railroad tracks, you know i did. like SIN said, i quit drinking at 21...the rush was gone. i never liked it, but it was a good way to rebel.

like lara, i can say that personally, i never regretted anything the next day after smoking....and no hangovers either.

no big conclusions, just my rant.

Many conservatives drink and smoke? So, that is a human nature thing, not a political or hypocritical issue. Enuf on that. Your story is the same as millions of others.
I agree on the possesions issue. You don't own "stuff", it owns you. You have to protect it, keep it dry and warm, store it and if it brings you joy, how much? Years ago, visiting a grandmother in a rest home, we did note that this woman, who was once a farm owner with plenty of property, vehicles, machines and animals, was now the proud ownner of one small dresser of personal items. A few pictures on top of it. So, when you get older, they take all your "stuff". More important to use your years building memories and good will. That usually gets taken from you too, but it is more satisfying.

Is it 4:20 yet?

i have a pal (responsible, self-employed, hard working father of two) who says it's always 4:20 somewhere. :P

Except for the "responsible, self-employed, hard working, and father of two" part, that's a description of me!!

yes, you are my pal

No one leave the planet alive.

Should be "leaves"

Life is a journey, enjoy the ride. It's not the possesion, but rather the experience. I want to be the poorest man in the graveyard.

FYI: Before you cast judgement (as you did, it's called prejudice, look it up) I don't have a trust fund, check the text.

SIN

I take it back, Rykak is a total looser and I hope his generation dies as fast as possible so we can make the world a better place. It's not name calling Booberinski, just genecide on loosers. RIP [#%!]!

Somebody needs a joint, badly.

Is it 5:00 yet? Never during business hours. LOL, all kidding aside, if I had one, Bobber, I would clean my house (top to bottom), change the transmission and take the barbells to the attic!

Yep Laurie, that's pretty much the only time I could get my ex to do ANYTHING! He was amazing though, would mow the lawn, edge etc., sweep AND wash the cars!!! And didn't complain!! The "wonder how that happens" drug!

TQ, with the right "currency", you can get a guy to do anything at all

OH, and SIN, your quote to my statement a week or so ago, "That's what trust funds are for." So, I assumed you had one. Guess not. What am I looser than? Did you mean "loser".
he he he. Free your mind a little more.

Hey Bobber, Yer not looser than me, I'm drinking a Belikin! (Hehehehe)

Are you Rykats bitch?

Hey SIN ~ I AM that generation. Surely you don't want to lump me in with the radical Right RYKITTY. I'm not ready to die AND I am NOT a loser. Furthermore, as you know, I love Reggae music and can't WAIT to retire so I can smoke whatever, whenever I want, IF I WISH. Don't kill off my generation man; we were the FIRST ones to break the rules! LOL!

I hear ya', just voicing my opinion of old folks (old at heart) not in age dahling! You know I luv you guys in Why-o-ming!

SIN

My my, Sin, you are testy. Having a bad day? In spite of your signature, you seem to be totally locked into a mindset and refuse to consider any alternatives to your chosen train of thought. Waiting for people to die so you can be whatever is a bit, mmm, self centered.

Kinda like waiting for Castro to die true? Times are changing and I love it! But there is a place for narrow minded folks, Newark.

So, you're originally from Newark then?

Your schoolyard taunts are injuring me severely. I recognize your point of view, and you are entitled to it as we all are, but could it possibly be that your views are a bit narrower than you realize? I am not particularly waiting for anyone to die, things will evolve as they were meant to. It is possible to open your mind to the point where your brain falls out.

Go sit on the beach with a Belikin and watch the world revolve around you for awhile.

Can't wait to. . .blow this joint. LOL

I'm done also. I am going to go home and teach my pug Swahili. I will probably have better results.

Have a good weekend, All.

Bobber

laurie, LMAO!!!!!!!!!!

I'm on the beach bro, wireless and Mar de Tumbo rocks!

The world of SIN - SICK! When you grow up some day, you'll get it.

Embrasse mon tcheue,Couillon!

Have a nice day!

ok so in the last day i have met some people from holland and surprisingl (to me>9 they share the EXACT same opinion as SIN... very interesting... and zet I AM SUPRISED AT HOW MANY::: HOW DID THE CAPS COME ON::: DANG EUROPAEN COMPUTERS::: THINK THAT IT SHOULD BE LEGAL SO THAT THE äFUNä IS GONE::: STRANGE KEY BOARD::: ANYWAY; CHANGING MY OPINON FOR SURE: these people are in the know and iäm agreeing with zou 100% on this. more thoughts later...

can you clarify that a little, TQ?

i think she said, "live and let live".

Don't bogart that joint my friend pass it on over to me!!

Correct me if I am wrong. When I was in Holland, I was told it is legal for small personal amounts, the smoking in the cafes is illegal technically, but not enforced. I would assume if you are trafficking or causing civil discontent, they would step on it quickly.

bobber, i would hope so, anywhere! first time you are being obvious.

I was also told (by residents that I was working with)that there is a bigger problem with it than they admit publicly. On the other hand, they said it was not the locals that were the problem, it was the tourists and backpackers.

We could abolish speed limits. That would take the amount of illegal speeders to zero. We would still have to scrape bodies off the pavement, but that's not a legal issue.

I love the internet! The whole World is in touch now versus the continued narrow mindedness of some countries. In the past you needed to spend thousands of dollars to travel in attempts to view others viewpoints and understandings. Now, it's just a few clicks away! Isn't it great?!

SIN

If you equate driving a three thousand pound vehicle at high speeds on a public highway to smoking a marijuana cigarette in your home, then I guess I am the over opinionated person.

On the other hand, I think it should be legal to drive as fast as you want and to crash into anything you like as long as you have a big enough farm with your own race track (or not) with no uninvited guests. A victimless crime. Like the sign I put up at the PGIA, "We are not responsible for stupid people."

SIN

Yes, it is great. However the internet is no substitute for being there. I was equating the speeding thing with de-criminalizing something and assuming it would no longer be a problem.

I have no idea what PGIA is, and you definitely are not responsible (logically) for stupid people, however you may still be responsible legally. God loves stupid people, he made a lot of them

Phillip Goldson International Airport.

Yeah, I know, how do you think GWB got elected (birds of a feather).

i must be having a problem with my short-term memory....what again is the problem with decriminalizing what i choose to do in my own home or allowing a medical prescription, and what does it have to do with driving the speed limit?

The point is, whether something is legal or illegal does not prevent it from happening. The issue that I point out is that, since criminalizing it doesn't seem to be effective, legalizing it is not going to change the situation. If you wish to puff in the confines of your own home, go ahead. I highly doubt the cops have enough time on their hands to come busting in your door. As far as legalizing it as a medical option, I am all for it, but it will have to be done through legislation.

To the Antis: I don't see how you can make a case for marijuana being illegal without also making a case as to why you think alcohol, nicotine, and even caffeine should be legal/illegal. Anything less and you are leaving yourself wide open to a hypocrite label making all your points against marijuana moot.

To all the Pros: Same thing accept in reverse. There are a lot of other drugs out there besides marijuana (from antibiotics to crack). Should they all be freely available with no controls? How high is too high? How addictive is too addictive? What happens when marijuana strength doubles, triples, quadruples etc from its natural level thanks to genetic engineering?

i think a lot of the opinions here are more or less based on personal experience! some ppl have good experiences...

while others have bad ones... such as friends and/or fam becomes addicted, maybe it tore apart a friendship or fam! who knows... everyone has their reasons for liking things and hating things!

btw... how is caffeine a drug? just outta curiousity... never heard of it in that context before...

There has been a ton of stuff written on caffeine and its effects, addictiveness, and withdrawal symptoms. It is obviously fairly mild as far as drugs go, but it certainly is a mind/body altering substance.

It is classified as a "Psychoactive Substance" - sounds fun me. Could somebody please pass me the caffeine bong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine

-snip-

"Caffeine is a central nervous system (CNS) stimulant, having the effect of temporarily warding off drowsiness and restoring alertness. Beverages containing caffeine, such as coffee, tea, soft drinks and energy drinks enjoy great popularity; caffeine is the world's most widely consumed psychoactive substance, but unlike most other psychoactive substances, it is legal and unregulated in nearly all jurisdictions."

-snip-

"Withdrawal symptoms - possibly including headache, irritability, an inability to concentrate, and stomach aches[47]- may appear within 12 to 24 hours after discontinuation of caffeine intake, peak at roughly 48 hours, and usually last from one to five days - representing the time required for the number of adenosine receptors in the brain to revert to "normal" levels, uninfluenced by caffeine consumption."

-snip-

"In large amounts, and especially over extended periods of time, caffeine can lead to a condition known as "caffeinism." Caffeinism usually combines "caffeine dependency" with a wide range of unpleasant physical and mental conditions including nervousness, irritability, anxiety, tremulousness, muscle twitching (hyperreflexia), insomnia, headaches, respiratory alkalosis[51] and heart palpitations.[52]"

right on Chris. No one on one side is going to convince anyone on the other side. there are people who can handle recreational use of alcohol, and pot, and those who can't. My opinion is that it should be available medicinally. Those who abuse any substance to the point where it affects others should be held to account.

My last word (opinion).

i was due to undergo prostate surgery a few years ago, and i sought alternative methods. a naturopath told me "there are lots of things we can try, and none are surgery." I liked that. the first thing he had me try was to cut out all caffeine. chocolate, cokes, tea (i don't drink coffee). after two months all symptoms went away. now i can eat chocolate and have a coke now and then in super moderation, but i no longer need the surgery.

my regular doc said it was a miracle. my naturopath wasn't a bit surprised.

Cool Marty, right on!

Awesome Marty! I fully believe it. Was it by any chance the naturopathy clinic started by Robin Murphy (the great naturopath and homeopath?) I know he started one in Oregon and worked there for many years. Now he's in Virginia. I study with him. www.lotushealthinstitute.com

bingo, bobber. i too am a big advocate of personal accountability. i knew eventually we'd be of similar thought.

A judge who had a secondary role in the recent Anna Nicole Smith proceedings was charged with smoking marijuana in a city park, police said Monday.

Lawrence Korda was smoking marijuana while sitting under a tree Sunday, police said. Three officers who were training there saw Korda and field-tested the cigarette, said Capt. Tony Rode, a police spokesman.

The judge was not arrested. He was given a misdemeanor citation to appear in court.

"Judge Korda was not given special treatment because of his status as a circuit court judge," Rode said. "He was provided with a notice to appear. That's exactly what 99 percent of other offenders would have been given for this type of offense."

Interesting.