AmbergrisCaye.com Home Forums Talk Belize Chat Area Inadvertant Racism?

He has already received a medal: for his service under the US Flag in our military.

His service enabled him to obtain partial funding for study at UNM.

He has since transfered.

Was gonna post my opinion but....you can guess where the radical right stands on this one!:-)

Bobber, you are correct on the value of the flag. My department buys 4'X5' US 50 star flags for $15 each (these are real stitched flags, not banners). Excessive penalty by the judge for property valued under $50 (usual misdemeanor level) and probably $10. He deserves another medal and I hope it thrown out on appeal, or at most he has to buy them a new flag.

Illegal is illegal, no matter what the lawyers, or anyone else, thinks. The confusion comes in defining illegal as it has multiple definitions: 1. Prohibited by law; 2. Prohibited by official rules: an illegal pass in football; 3. Unacceptable to or not performable by a computer: an illegal operation. Illegal is not the same as criminal. The commission of a crime is punnishable by imprisonment. Committing non-criminal illegal acts can be punnished by fine, loss of privilege, etc, but not by custody time.only if it is your property. The same criminal offense would apply had this act occured to an American flag belonging to someone else. did mine?can I use that argument next time you leave your car at the airport for more than 4 days? It is a criminal act to take even "abandoned" property that does not belong to you. I used to work in a bookstore that sold flags. It probably cost close to $150 if it was bigger than 5x8. misdemeanor offense, with misdemeanor punishment - stayed custody time, community service, restitution for the damaged property.Mr. Lynch was not prosecuted for making a racist gesture. He was prosecuted for the destruction of private property, which is considered vandalism. (You remember the Vandals, yes?) No private person or entity can make a decision to press charges. They can relay their wishes or desire to cooperate to a legal authority but only one in a legal position of authority, such as a district attorney or attorney general, can press charges. This is because in the United States crimes are deemed to have been committed against the People, i.e. criminal prosecution is carried out by the government in the name of all its citizens. Individuals can file civil actions to address wrongs done against them personally. That was not done in this case. me too

Now, for a bit of context:
The Mexican flag, flying in commemoration of Mexican Independence Day, was never supposed to be left up by itself. It had been raised by the Mexican Student Association on Sept. 14. When Army ROTC members went to retire the U.S. and state flags that evening, they left the Mexican flag because they thought students from the Mexican Student Association would return that same evening to take it down. That didn't happen. On the following Monday, Army ROTC students who were supposed to raise the U.S. and state flags forgot to do so. When asked why he didn't just take the flag down and hand it over instead of ripping it apart, Lynch admitted, "I may have gotten a little carried away."

And finally, accuracy is so very important. It was not La Raza which flew the Mexican flag. It was El Centro de la Raza, a Hispanic student-support organization, intended to promote diversity on a campus which had seen far too many racially-charged incidents in weeks just preceding this event. The "La Raza" motto cited by pugwash has been publically and officially denounced by "La Raza" more accurately known as the National Council of La Raza. http://www.nclr.org/

unfounded racial attacks can come from any side

Yer good!

See, just tweak the right subject and get someone else to do the legwork. Thank you, Leah-Ann, you just kept me from having to dig out the facts. Student organizations are not known for their tact (or reliability).

yeah, Bobber - perhaps the college should offer a course in that? I certainly could have used one - probably still could (the tact part, I'm very reliable)

now that just brings a tear to my eye

So to recap:

There Is technically a Federal law regarding flags, which was violated when the Mexican flag was flown alone on State property?

To fly a non US flag alone is a non criminal Illegal act?

6 months probation, anger management classes and community service are a sentence that is fair and reasonable considering the previous record, the mitigating circumstances and the character and background of Mr lynch?

Mr Lynch sought out El Centro de la Raza, offered to buy a new flag, but they filed a complaint, asking for prosecution under hate crimes guidelines and the DA in turn filed charges? is that the correct sequence ? (Albuquerque elected a new DA recently, by the way)

El Centro de La Raza, The University and UNM ROTC have no culpability in these wrongdoings?

The Mexican flag was flying on a US university campus to celebrate Mexican Independence day: I guess I'm not sure I've ever seen any US flags flown in Mexico at government or state facilities on July 4th.

As I speak only English, some French and a little Latin, I may have missed the subtle difference between La Raza and El Centro La Raza: there are links between each others web sites, and El Centro appears to have just got some sort of award from La Raza ? Is it like Fox and Fox News? or NBC and MSNBC? you know, the same but different?

If only they were called the Blue Aeroplanes!
www.ambergriscaye.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/287699/Re_Rosetta_Stone.html#Post287699

This is also an interesting link, if you would care for some background?
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=13863

When a presenter "spins" the facts they can be made to appear anything the presenter desires to present. "Law" is a term, like many in the English language, which is susceptible to a variety of definitions. The rule you cited could be called a "law" under the general definition "a rule of conduct established and enforced by the authority, legislation, or custom of a given community, state, or nation." There are many laws which do not carry criminal sanctions. (Say like the laws of nature?) Again, what you cited is not a criminal law, it is a suggested rule of etiquette for flag handling. There are no criminal penalties attached, indeed, there are no penalties of any type attached. Just as there are no penalties attached for the horrible violation of fashion rules I observed in court this morning, nor for the discomfort endured by others when one talks with his/her mouth full, in blatant disregard of the customarily accepted laws of etiquette. These are really bad things, but they aren't crimes. (kinda sad, as it was a really unfortunate suit I observed this morning it needed punishing!)
Yes, as a criminal defense attorney, I have to say 6 months of informal probation, an anger management class and community service is entirely fair for someone who trespassed, took property which did not belong to him, destroyed it, and admitted that he got "carried away" in engaging in this conduct. This gentleman is certainly old enough and should be mature enough to handle a situation he does not like in a manner which does not destroy property that does not belong to him. Military service does not give one the license to destroy other people's property, even if those other people have made you angry.
Mr. Lynch's offer to make restitution was entirely appropriate. However it came after the crime had been reported. It couldn't be "unreported." Again, the organization DID NOT file the complaint. They complained about a crime. Big difference. The prosecutor filed the complaint, the formal charging document. The prosecutor chose to go forward with the case and the student organization could not have stopped that even if they wanted to. Can you point me to something which says the student organization requested that hate crimes be charged? Even if that is an accurate statement, those charges were not brought. The DA did not charge them, generally that means the DA did not think there was merit to the charges.
I have observed the US flag flying in a number of other countries. I have also observed the flags of other countries flown at US government buildings in appropriate circumstances. For example, when I lived in Fresno, it was not unusual for the Fresno City Hall to do so. Fresno has a large Mexican population. They come from a rich cultural heritage worthy of celebration. How does doing that in any way diminish American culture or heritage? What is it that is threatening about recognizing the good in others and celebrating their accomplishments along with them?
"La Raza" is not an official organization, group of organizations, or movement. It is a term, used in a variety of ways, both good and bad, much like the word "Aryan" which also has both good and bad connotations. Thank you for your link. I am very familiar with both the concepts conveyed by the term and with the ways in which the term has been abused. My familiarity comes from involvement in legal actions involving assorted Mexican-American groups, and from marrying into a Mexican family. (As an aside, MEChA, the group focused on in the link you provide, is a very disturbing organization - people often mistakenly refer to them as La Raza.) In any event, the student organization involved in the incident at hand was not a part of that organization.
Here are a couple of links which might provide a bit less biased information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Raza
http://www.nclr.org/content/viewpoints/detail/42500/
I suspect your inability to see the difference between La Raza and El Centro La Raza has less to do with your language abilities than it does with the fact that people generally see what they want to see. The second link above is particularly helpful in explaining some of your confusion. You approached this issue with a bias. At times, we all do that. But that bias often determines how we present an issue. Here, whether intentional or not, you omitted context and misstated facts, both of which would have provided a more accurate picture of who was involved and what actually happened.

Spin as you will!