AmbergrisCaye.com Home Forums The Cayes Environment Grand Belizean Estates, Too Good to be True

Hi i hope that someone can give me some advice on purchasing a piece of land that is being sold by Grand Belizean Estates
cost is $8075 per plot on Ambergris Caye.

is this a good deal,
if so cheap is there a problem. to good to be true

Is this the only good value land on the caye or is there lots from other people for sale

i look forward to you reply thanks

You know what they say....if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Search here for info on Grand Belizean Estates. You will find out way more then you want to know!

If it sounds too good to be true... then you should check it out for yourself (as the original poster is trying to do). Reading the testimonials on your website, Barbara, could lead one to conclude that your services are "too good to be true" by all the positive comments, but I accept that those are evidence of people being very satisfied with the services you provide, rather than assume the worst about your services.

Every Sunday, GBE offers a beach BBQ and "Discovery Trip" for any and all who want to come and see the lots and the subdivision for themselves, rather than rely on message board armchair quarterbacks. Over 100 people have accepted the invitation over the last three weekends alone, resulting in well over 100 lots under contract for purchase by those who came, and saw, with their own two eyes.

To answer the original post, there is a lot of land for sale, and a lot of good value land on Ambergris Caye.

But since you are asking specifically about GBE here are some testimonials from several people who made their own educated informed decisions after seeing the land for themselves.

Iornwarrior: Ask for owner referrals you can speak to yourself, and ask for photos of the specific lots you are interested in. If at all possible, come and see for yourself before you make any final buying decision. That way you are sure of what you are getting.

Juan,
still waiting for you to answer the question about why Grand Belizean Estates did not conduct an Environmental Impact Assessment as required by Law.

Barb's testimonials are from people who have received services in full (like me - 2002). testimonials for her services are written AFTER she does what she said she would, services completed to full satisfaction of the client, & the quality of these services proven.

testimonials from anyone, from any development, sitting on a piece of sand with nothing on it, or seeing one in person, for that matter, tells me nothing but that it exists as a piece of sand. if the end product does not exist, its not a testimonial - it's just speculation.

pre-construction developments are cheap because - like most $-making investments - there is an amount of risk involved. anyone can say anything, but you don't really know what you get until its done. it may turn out to be the greatest thing since sliced bread...but then again, maybe not so much. but since NO ONE has a completed house in that sub-div at this very minute- with or without all the claimed amenities - you really won't know if its paradise, hell, or somewhere in between till its completed.

When you purchase a vacant parcel of land, and that land has been surveyed, and the Deed of Conveyance have been issued, you have received services in full. Three of these testimonials were written well after people had purchased their lots and were coming back to the subdivision to see how much progress has taken place since they purchased. The fourth was expressed by someone who just picked out their lot.

There people are getting exactly what they have paid for, and exactly what they saw before they had purchased. A beautiful vacant lot on high ground measuring 60' x 75' (minimum).

Their testimonials ARE about the end product. They purchased vacant land.

When you or anybody else, purchases a vacant lot in Habaneros, Robles, Mata Grande, Basil Jones, Ambergris Bay, Caribbean Coves, Boca Ciega, Club Caribbean, etc., etc. you are buying a piece of sand with nothing on it. It's not speculation...it's vacant land. You got exactly what was described and what you paid for. You are getting the end product in such a case and that does allow for a testimonial - and not just speculation.

You can be in any subdivision on this island and depending on what your neighbor builds or how they act, it can be paradise, misery, or somewhere in between. And there is no guarantee it will stay that way even once its completed. Remember, the difference between "protective covenants" and "restrictive covenants" is whether you are the person whose car is up on blocks in the front yard (in which case they are restrictive) or you are the neighbor living next door to some one whose car is up on blocks (in which case covenants are protective).

Don't begrudge someone from giving a testimonial about how happy they are about their purchase of land, with that land being "as-is", as it stands today, and with the hope that owning that land offers to them to have an affordable home on Ambergris Caye in the future. The end product is affordable vacant lots of land, and they do exist, and the testimonials offered are just as informative as yours, or any other on Barb's site. If lot owners in GBE weren't happy with what they have gotten for the money they wouldn't be referring so many friends, co-workers and family members to come and see the lots for themselves.

But equally don't read too much into it either.

What is the elevation of this High ground. From what I can tell it looks like swamp.

the best thing to do is to take a free ride up there on sunday and check it out for yourself. i`m presuming you haven`t been there so you really can`t tell what it is

Brandon C: Average elevation is 5'-10' above sea level. Bring your GPS to verify. (Not all GPS have elevation, the Garmin eTrex is a very good one that does do elevation.) The highest elevations I've found are 15' to 18' above sea level. (Pull up Google Earth and zoom in on the same area and you will see the same elevations as noted above.)

Currie52: You summed it up best. Take a free trip and see for yourself.

Here are two aerial photos (April 2010) with partial subdivision map overlay for scale. Shaded green areas are open space/park areas. I didn't finish the second photo, but between the two you can identify any block of lots within the subdivision so when you are on foot with a subdivision map in hand you can see any area of the subdivision and know where you are.

come on Juan, answer the question. Why did you not conduct an Environmental impact assessment for this subdivision or for Sugar Caye.
Do you think you are above the law?
Do you not think our laws should apply to you?
How do you explain it to your buyers or dont you tell them ?

Don't waste your breath, he's not going to say because he has no legitimate reason. Yes, he does think (and knows, with the present administration) that he is indeed above the law.

I dont have a horse in this race but I'm getting curious why johnny G as asked this EIA question of Juan Grande on at least 3 separate occasions with no answer while he answers all others.

Whats going to happen when people want to start building? will they be permitted with out septic and water. Where is the sewage going to go for 1000 little lots in the lowlands, in their shallow water wells???
Should we start looking for another rescue group like San Mateo has.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?a...#!/group.php?gid=268647241623&ref=ts [url=http://http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=4432&id=100000617096934#!/group.php?gid=268647241623&ref=ts][/url]

Something our local government can be proud of.
They created this beautiful community by cutting down some old ugly mangroves.

The dark side of La Isla Bonita...

The Health Inspector should close down all this nasty places.

And just throw all these families out into the street...right?

Thats the problem isn't it. Slums, ya can just say 'OK everyone go back to where you where before'.

It will take some time but San Mateo will come around.
I remember when San Pedrito looked worse than that. It has improved 100 fold.

Kim Shakleford and her students from Ole Miss are doing a great job mobilizing the community

Yes! Wonderful effort...and the community is responding

I'm not criticizing their efforts, not at all, by all means help these people. I'm wondering about the wisdom of the town board creating another... and another. What the hell can they be thinking by making huge areas of little lots in the low lands that have no water or sewage, or hope of water and sewage. There going to allow this area to fill up and then we have the cycle of, 'what are we to do with these poor souls living in squaller with out clean water', begin again and again.
Once its occupied its as jesse said,'What are we going to do throw them out in the street?'.

So why aren't you an activist along with Elito and all of the various community organizations that might be able to effectively combat these problems. Surely you don't think that your bitching on this message board has any local effect?

looking at that photo, i don't see how even a septic would be useful?

I am Jesse , I contribute money and am on committees.
I attend the meetings
I don't see you at the meetings!
If anyone wants to organize a good old riot where we throw stones at the town board building ,I'm for that also.

and bitching on the message board is effective , probably more so that a rock through her Highness's window.

I have my ears there to report on results.
How is this message board effective?

Currently serving over 15,000 viewers a day (unique hosts)
I think a lot of people are listening, but it could also just be you and I.

Elbert, when was the last time you visited San Pedrito?
Or San Juan?
They are still poor neighborhoods but the banks are lending and there is pride beginning show. No destitution there anymore.
The logoon lots are very nice and expensive now.
Actually some prominent San Pedranos and gringos live in the 'hood now.
It was 5 times larger and worse than San Mateo 10 years ago.
In 5 years the swamp lots and buildings in San Mateo will become waterfront properties (park your boat in front of your house) and will be worth $100ds of thousands of dollars.
San Pablo is a good example.

As far as hijacking the thread?--this is more important and GBE is using this board as a tool to generate sales so highjack away folks.

Elbert,
I was encouraging the highjack. You are an accomplice by re hashing old posts.
GBE can do its own marketing--no?

"when was the last time you visited San Pedrito?
Or San Juan?'
I have been and lately, this is a good point, they are developing and changing rapidly.
It isn't a very fair comparison although. They get city services like water and septic, do they not?
Part of the problem I have with Grand Belize Estates is the added volume/demand for water, electricity, garbage disposal, police protection and septic when we can't provide for what we have already created.
but what now that we've added a few thousand more lots?

Rather than inside it as at present.

I am afraid that if the 1000 plus lots are sold and construction begins that BWS would be happy to put in a sea R O system and sell them water for 5 cents a gallon--the septic situation is another issue altogether and should have already been addressed which is seems that it has not. The drama continuessssss....

Mr. Jones,
These areas like San Mateo have a strange habit of being upgraded in the months prior to election time. Mysterious as it may sound. Maybe the politcians don't want to look at the despair or step in it while campaigning?

The sins of irresponsible development seem to me to be split equally between the two political parties. I'm disheartened at both parties for their foolish land development endeavors.
I frankly would like to see a new national party this next election.

I totally understand the low lying area and the water. But cleanliness is free. There is so much crap thrown on the ground on this island that septic isn't going to make a difference. Let's say we find a solution to over developing and sewerage, it's not going to change the mindset of the vast majority of people who have a disregard for their own property much less the property of others. What's the bigger issue in the picture above, the low land, the rising water, or the dozens of glass bottles, plastic bottles, wash machines, refrigerators, and everything else littering this picture, this area, and this island. Preaching on this forum isn't going to change that...the majority of people trashing this island aren't reading this forum anyway.

The people that created this subdivision and the people that voted them in office do!

I thought Juan Grande was just a realtor? Are real estate agents normally involved with that stuff? I've got a lot of family in the States that are real estate agents and from my limited knowledge on the subject don't they just sell the property? Isn't that other stuff the responsibility of the developer?

The Road East to West is coming up in court again later this month.
I noticed they now are advertising they are accessible by road.
I walked back to check on it Saturday.
Two days ago you would still have to swim to get there from the East side of the island. The road project is stopped, The dredge and heavy machinery has been removed.
What is there is a dredged out canal and a Levey of mud, with one huge culvert.
Its still not to late to save the lagoons. If the project stays as it is the rains will wash away most of the destructive dam like levy that's been constructed and the lagoon will survive.
http://matalagoon.blogspot.com/

David Mitchell had his dredge next to San Mateo for months. He pumped all the sand across to Costa Del Sol. Now the residents of San Mateo are struggling with their area and how to fill. Mr. Mitchell should be held liable. He should have to fill the entire area of San Mateo with all of the money he is making from GBE and Sugar Caye.

Ambergris Cayes 'Platinum Coast'!! accessible by road!!
This makes me laugh a little but then I remember what a #!&% hole their creating on the island.
Now you can own your very own lot (60' x 75', with some lots larger) in the 1,200 lot subdivision of Grand Belizean Estates for only $7,500 US per lot. Lush tropical jungle landscaping, high elevation of land, and only 1,500' to the beaches of the Platinum (West) Coast of Ambergris Caye. Grand Belizean Estates is located just 3 miles north of San Pedro Town and is accessible by road or boat.

All land speculators should beware. Laws and regulations can change. The curse of Ambergris Caye, besides a government that does not care, is land speculators. Just be cause someone buys land does not give them rights to build. Developers provide services and infrastructure while land speculators do not, they just bet on the land becoming more valuable. All the Pinkerton Estate was acquired by the GOB under a law that says the land must be for public use. Under the UDP land was given complete with titles to First Corp for resale. This was around the airstrip. When the PUP came in they revoked the titles because of the law. Johnny then sold it all off to other private interests, contrary to law. The GBE land was acquired because two of our locals, Jimbo and Milo concocted a sale of "Mandy's Caye" just to the west of Caye Caulker to Mitchell. Problem was the Island belonged to someone else and the GOB had been pressured to issue title to Jimbo and Milo. With Florencio as Minister the Island was given back to the rightful owners and somehow Mitchell ended up with GBE, all quite illegally of course as the land was acquired for public purpose. I would be very reluctant to invest in such a project that brags about it's substandard sized lots. Minimum distance between septic and well is 100' , can't be done on the size of lots they have. They may find it difficult to get permits to build if we had a correct master plan that was enforced.
We must try to get back the lands that Johnny illegally sold on North Ambergris Caye. I have some attorneys interested in pursuing it but we have no funds.

I think this is better placed on this thread.

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and its related link
//ambergriscaye.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/352160/8.html

I'm new to the discussion but wanted to check on some things. My husband and I will be taking our third trip to Ambergris in Sept. and we're ready to start looking for property. We've decided we want to live on the west side of the island and have found a couple of lots in the Ambergris Bay subdivision. Can anyone tell me if this is in anyway associated with Grand Belizean Estates? thanks.

Ambergris Bay is in not associated with Grand Belizean Estates.

Thanks! We're just starting to look around there and have been reading all of the issues that have come up regarding GBE and wasn't sure. Thanks again for the info! Any suggestions on buying property on the westside?

We will make sure that the voters of this community don't forget who is making this happen and who is continually allowing all of these projects without following the laws of Belze. 5O,OOO dollars Bz and he got all those properties including protected areas. Do the right thing and compensate back to the people of this island with his Costa Del Mar property, Jr.

Gubbie, There are some great houses on the west side and some nice properties but you should really try living over there for a week to see what its like.
The East Coast developing first has a long list of reasons why.
True some of those reasons will be over come with the advent of electricity and road but its a long list.
Try it first and then you will know for yourself.

It would seem that these transactions were, if not illegal, certainly not in the best interest of the people. The argument is that he has to be compensated for what he purchased was worth, not what he paid for it. Of course the compensation happened a short time after the original transaction so there is no legitimate way the property could have appreciated that much in that amount of time. That begs the question why would the government sell something worth millions for $50,000?
Where is Jr.? He seems intent on representing the interests of speculators over the interests of the people that elected him to represent them. The sad part is he was not always like this and I was comfortable with him representing us. Now???

Concerning the differences between GBE and Sugar Caye, for those that might be interested, I see no way that a standard septic system can be installed on any lot in Sugar Caye and building permits should not be issued unless an acceptable sewage system is possible. There is not enough "dry land" to allow the effluent to percolate into the ground water system without polluting it and the surrounding waters and of course the lots themselves. The only solution is a proper sewer system tied into our existing system. Without that the only type of system that would work would be a composting toilet or incinerating toilet.

In the early '90's I built a small single family home way down south near the South Beach area and the DOE and Housing and Planning would not allow me to build unless I installed a composting toilet. Cholera and Typhoid are real possibilities when you do not have proper sewage disposal..

Sugar Caye is marginally better than San Mateo as the lots are not underwater and there are roadways. The standard soak-away requires 2 feet of soil below the last layer of rocks and gravel. Those conditions do not exist in San Mateo or Sugar Caye or parts of GBE. Town board has copies of Typical Septic System supplied by Central Planning and approved by Health. If I am wrong I would love to be corrected.

Folks need to check these things out before they buy a lot to build their dream or vacation home. They may end up living in conditions not expected. Our regulations are currently being ignored and consumers are not getting the protection that good regs should provide.

This should be first on our area reps list but he does not understand the significance of what is going on or does not care considering his stand on these "compensations" and lack of action on San Mateo.

Buyer Beware, deal with a reputable agent and dont get directly involved with those selling developments as you have no protection against misrepresentations while a competent realtor has a reputation to protect.

Thanks Elbert. We figured as much and didn't plan on building for about 10 years but wanted to purchase land now. I know a lot can change in 10 years but we've decided we're going to take a chance. We've our last stay on the east side was 30 days and we loved every minute of it! I just wish there was more information available on works in progress on the island, sub-divisions and things like that. I've been following the newspapers etc and really enjoy the local stories but there doesn't seem to be much regarding building, permits and other similar stories. I guess it's not a big news story on the island. That's one of the reasons I began reading the chats regarding GBE because I was looking for as much info as I could find about the island and building. Thanks again.

Mike thank you for the informaiton you've provided in your posts. It's helpful to me because we're looking at purchasing a lot in Ambergris Bay. We have a realtor and will ask him about the permits and septic issues you've mentioned as well as checking on these things ourselves. Not that I don't trust our realtor but he may not know. Thanks again for the info.

Check out the latest info from GBE...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJA2naQKW_c

Looks like a huge set up to me. All this work must be fake!

For better, or for worse... the work is anything but fake.

We drove the road a few days ago. It is COMPLETE from one side of the island to the other (including a bridge.) It's arguable that from a driving standpoint, it's the best road on the island. It took us approximately 15 minutes to drive from the beach on the east side to their dock on the back (perhaps 3 miles.)

There are obviously a LOT of issues to be wrangled with before anyone starts building back there, but access to the land is there.

The ride from San Pedro TO the road going west however, now that is wet/bumpy.

SF Jeff,
I heard one of the guides mention he went on his motorcycle to the west coast from the east Sunday. I was surprised.
How do you see the drainage? is it like a huge mud dam or did they put in more culverts?

Elbert,

From what I could see there is one main bridge w/ SIGNIFICANT culverts in place... culverts you could take a small boat through... The bridge is over what is rather the "main" part of the lagoon, on the far eastern side of the road... The rest of the road on the eastern side is more of a built up dam, no culverts from what I saw... Once you get about 1/2 way across, the road is much more on solid land and there are drainage channels on either side of the road. The last stretch of road heading west, as you approach the west side/bay is on high/solid land.

Elbert: You afraid to use the road?

Elbert I wanted to let you know that I was recently in AC to see for myself what is going on with the road. It was important since we're considering a land purchase on the west side of the island. As SF Jeff said the road is driveable and extends from the east coast to the west coast. I hesitate to say the road is done because it is drivable from east to west but it isn't open to the public yet since they are still working on it. My husband and I ran into Mr. Mitchell at dinner and asked him point blank about the road and explained that we were looking to purchase land on the west coast and that we were concerned about the controversy noted in the blogs. I thought he was quiet honest about what has been completed and what their plans are for the immediate future. We were invited to attend a tour of GBE the following morning which we did. There were two other people also on the tour that had already purchased their lots in GBE and they were along to view their lots. We were up front about not purchasing in GBE but we were still invited to go on the tour to see for ourselves what has been done with the road.

We picked up the tour on the west coast at the GBE pier and took a truck into the sub division and then took the road through the back side of GBE to the east side. The road is high, dry and easily 100 times better than the north road out of San Pedro. They have only built the road up and haven't graded the road and it was still smooth and an easy ride in a large pick up truck. On the portion of the road that goes through the lagoon the road was built up very high and there is a very large "culvert" which I would consider more of a bridge but I'm not an engineer. It's made of concrete and is large enough for a smaller water craft to go under. There were other large large metal culvert pipes that were placed at various places along the road in the lagoon area and we were told that these culverts would be in place before the final grading was completed on the road. We were also told that since the road has been completed to the east side of the island GBE will be running power to their sub-division within a few months but they also said not to hold them to the time frame because there could be a million delays of one sort or another. I thought this was reasonable.

Overall we were impressed with the tour and the efforts they seem to be taking regarding the lagoon, the road and the power. There were some questions they couldn't answer but I never got the impression there was anything that they wouldn't answer. I also understood that their operation was determined to finish their plans for the sub-division, the road and power but at the same time they are trying to maintain as much of the lagoon and wildlife as possible while finishing the road.

Overall we were impressed with the project as it was presented to us and we were provided contact information should be have any additional questions.

AHahahahahahahaha!

AHahahahahahah!

Mitchels is this you?

Not hardly. your response is disappointing as I had hoped you would have responded in a more productive manner. I have to wonder if you are either being unreasonable or paranoid that you just can't believe that anyone could have a view other than yours. I don't feel I need to justify anything I posted because I saw this for myself and I have an open mind and can be reasonable. I can also admit when I'm wrong which could be the case here but I don't think so. One thing I didn't put in my last post was that I discussed quite openly how I had been following the blogs and specifically the negative comments that had been made about GBE. I never mentioned you by your screen name but during our conversation it was brought up that there was one person that blogged by the name "Elbert" that was very negative but it was because he lived near where the road was coming out on the east side of the island and didn't want all of the extra traffic by his place. I'm assuming this would be you. I found it interesting that I gave the GBE employees several opportunities to trash the negative blogs but they wouldn't only saying they didn't need to respond to the negative blogs because they constantly offer to have people come out and look for themselves. As I said I could have been misled but I doubt it. I won't be buying in GBE becuase it wasn't the type of land we're looking for but I took the time to speak with the two people that had already purchased their property in GBE and they couldn't have been happier or more excited to begin building their home. I hope it works out for them. I only know that seeing the road from the east side to the west side of the island was a huge factor in our decision to purchase property on the westside of the island. We made an offer before we left last week.

If your not Mitchels then your another one of the Troll realestate vipers that are trying to hype the place.
Not worth my time for a serious response.

This thread seems to have the answers to a lot of the questions but if you need more information you can check out the blog below.
http://matalagoon.blogspot.com/

Well the last time I checked I wasn't a troll (I checked with my grandson and he said I definitely wasn't a troll and showed me a picture of one-it didn't look anything like me) I also have been referred to as a viper and certainly never a real estate viper. More like a semi-retired person looking to move to the island for some peace and quiet. I find it interesting that you feel that when you can't make an intelligent argument about a point you stoop to name calling, which it seems is what your posts come down to-you being insulting if someone doesn't agree with you. I was hoping to get away from people like that but hey I guess they're everywhere! What's a person to do.

Elbert, please admit that sometimes you are WRONG!

Passionate? yes. Wrong? What is the plan for infrastructure? Who are the immediate benefactors of this project? Time will tell.....

Grand Belize Estates has been and will be a blight on Ambergris Caye. The developer has dishonestly acquired the project by seducing government into circumventing all the rules in place to protect the environment and responsibly plan a development. Hes created a disaster that the island will be paying for for the rest of its history.
A slum, a Dump, a low rent district with out hope of sewage, water, or electricity that will be inhabited by impoverished immigrants and poor Belizeans. Belize will suffer the humiliation of foreign countrys intervention through creating rescue efforts to assist people living in inhumane poverty and diseased conditions.
Through false advertisements misrepresenting the property, developer and Realtor have successfully sold lots and when all are sold they will simply leave town with the money and broken promises with Belize left to clean up a irreconcilable mess.
Gubbie, If your not a troll your naive or stupid.
IMHO !

I agree. The area could have had a workable design but it's poorly conceived and horribly executed so far. If the road were north of Laguna del matta and that made a marina and proper fill and green ways etc. it might have had a chance to be a nice and successful community. Slum is exactly the word and it will drain the economy or worse the people will be completely on their own.

You seem to miss the entire reason for my post which was to confirm the information regarding the east/west road which was posted by someone else. You can call me all the names you'd like if it makes you feel better but it doesn't change what I saw for myself and as I stated before my only concern was to see what the progress of the east/west road was for no other reason than to see if inland transportation was going to be possible to the west side of the island. Instead of name calling anyone that disagrees a with you and making your self look foolish with your childish responses why don't you try another tact. It would seem the sub-division is a reality and the time for complaining about how it came to be is over (unless there are other legal options). Why don't you try working with someone (or groups) to make the best of what seems to be inevitable. It sounds like the time for trying to bully GBE into changing things is over and there needs to focus on making GBE the best it can be. I can certainly see how this sub-division could become what you envision but if this is the future for GBE why not try to do something about it instead of sitting around on your computer calling people names. I've always thought that a person can sit around and whine about problems and do nothing or they can complain about problems and then try to offer solutions and help fix the problems. I'm sure this has never occurred to you becuase some people seem happy in their misery.

AMEN!

gubbie
Elbert is very active and totally involved in trying to insure SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT here.
He has lived here a long time and is eye witness to the developments that are now in desperate need of government intervention.
In the USA a developer has to put in the ENTIRE infrastructure before anything else is done. Here lines are drawn on paper, pieces of wetlands (sometimes called swamps) are sold and the developer (without any development) can move on. This leaves people who are desperate to own a piece of the pie holding the bag.

I wish you could see the San Mateo sub-division right now. The Tropic Air pilot flew us up over that and Reef Village on Saturday on our way in from the mainland.

What Elbert and many others are trying to stop is this sort of mess happening once again.

There is going to be another ACCSD meeting Oct. 8th. You should plan to attend.

Harriet, gubbie was there for their third visit in Sept. Probably not there now to attend any meetings. She is certain she can see everything with a couple of visits and understands how self serving Elbert is. Personally, I don't know why anyone would want to live in the reclaimed swamps on the west side of the island. I can remember one of my first visits to AC and going across the pull ferry and fishing where Reef Village now is. The land was better suited for bonefish than for condos. I also don't understand how you can think good development is gotten by drawing nice straight boxes on land. When I was teaching Urban Planning and residential design at both Michigan State and the University of Lagos, the students were required to consider such mundane things like carrying capacity of the land, the topographical feature that are environmentally sensitive, providing adequate services and infrastructure for everyone to have access to sanitation, water, roads, electricity, etc. One of the first design problems given our students in Lagos was design a small community in a swampy area. Most of the students acknowledged that the really wetlands were not good for any sort of development. Residential areas and other development projects were located on higher ground the road system to reach these developments was what was called organic in that the roads wound through the property, they didn't cut a path in straight lines. To gubbie, I suggest you read a book or two or urban design before thinking that GBE is a good project. Elbert isn't always right but he does know his area a little better than you. Over fifteen years living in a place gives you a sense of the place, visiting for a month or two gives you a desire to live there not any real knowledge of the place. Responsible development is more than drawing lines on a peice of paper and selling lots.

Good post Ron

AC is groaning now wit overdeveloped,unsustainble growth that will choke this place. Already, some tourists have questioned any 'eco' anything in literature about this place because of building in swamps. Elbert is 100% correct. Where is the impact study? This will fail for 20 years as GOB struggles to clean up the whole lousy mess.

No master plan ,no EIA study done when the laws of Belize clearly states that on this island when a property is over 50 lots an EIA is required. 1200 lots what about their garbage ,water ,sewage,electricity,police,fire station,clinic,or a school area for so many families not to mention of any proper roads within this subdivision. Our politicians have all been bought by Mitchell,PUP was first then followed by the S.PTC and then our area rep.

looks like Barrow has his hand in too.

Shame shame shame

I really wish I could but I live in the states and we were only down there to look at potential property. I'm glad to hear that elbert is active in trying to stop inappropriate building and development. I guess I would just like to hear more about what can be done to stop this from taking place instead of name calling and personal attacks on the blogs-it's not a very grown up way to accomplish anything.

It's good to know that people (including Elbert) are involved but based on what I saw the development is a done deal and has moved forward. Is there any possiblity that the development can be halted or is it now a situation of trying to shore up what's already there to try and prevent what could happen. I wouldn't want to see GBE turn into anything even resembling a slum especially since we're looking at purchasing property near there. My exchanges with Elbert were nothing more that personal observations of when I was there taking a tour. I can't help what I saw or what I thought of the people that were conducting the tour. I've been trying to explain to Elbert that I don't disagree with what he's trying to do I just don't like the name calling-it's unproductive. I am glad to hear that there are activist that believe in causes. Thanks for the info.

I'm confused about why everyone thinks that I think GBE is a good project. As I have stated before I can only go off what I saw. My initial inquiry was about the east/west road and nothing more. Because I didn't understand the working of the island I have been following the blogs and newspaper articles for any information regaridng the road and developments on the island. I don't like the design of GBE or the way this has been set up because it's not for me which is why when we took the tour I made it very clear to the GBE representatives that we had no intention of buying there. You are correct that I don't know the area or island which is why I'm trying to collect information to understand better. You are correct in that after a few visits to your island I could not know much about it which is why we've made more than one trip and plan on making several more over the next couple of years. I do know that my husband and I have traveled extensively looking for property and have viewed more land that I care to remember. I'm not certain that Elbert is self serving and believe that he is sincerely concerned about what's going on-again I only posted what I saw for myself and didn't make judgements on the people buying property in GBE that were on the tour. Who am I to tell them that they made a mistake. Again I just didn't like that I posted what I saw and was called names and was accused of things that weren't true. I do care about what happens on the island especially since I would like to live there some day. It's difficult when you're trying to collect information about what's going on from such a distance. I suppose I should have posted what I saw regarding the road and left it at that or I could have just agreed and moved on.

Gubbie,
We've been plagued by Developer and real-estate sales people posing as interested buyers to just hype the sales of GBE lots. Its been humorous sometimes and irritating at others.
You sounded very much like one of them and I apologize for saying your either stupid or naive.
You probably are someones grandma and not one of our many Trolls on this subject.

Bravo....Elbert....Bravo......

Most of us in San Pedro are very much in favor of development. The problems with this project that bother us is #1. the way the land was acquired from the GOB and #2. we see the project as substandard in lot sizes and a continuation of the land speculation that has bee the curse of the Island since "the old days".

Projects that do not have proper infrastructure to support the very small lots are detrimental to all of us. When your lot is too small you can not provide adequate separation between septic and well. Additionally if these lots are built upon without the "developer" providing these services as well as trash pick up the end result will be detrimental to us all in terms of pollution and health hazards. I can not understand why anyone would buy a lot realizing that their neighbors and them selves had no way to dispose of their trash except throwing it behind the house for the rats and wild animals to pick through.

Lots of this size are not acceptable anywhere in the country and are approved by the government because they are involved with the project in some way and ask that they be approved. When we see photo of the PM, Mayor and Area rep all lined up with the speculator and are receiving what seems to be a check from him we all wonder what is going on and feel that the best interests of San Pedro are not being considered and the government is putting land speculators into a protected category and are not regulating their activities for the good of the community. We see it as a major problem in San Pedro and North Ambergris Caye.

We welcome legitimate developers and believe that these land speculator types scare away the better investors as they refuse to be involved in this type of hanky panky. Thanks for your efforts Elbert and keep up the good work. This board is one of our few news sources as the papers dont report these things much for some reason.

What about San Pablo, San Marcos, DFC, San Pedrito...?
Same lots sizes...no sewer service.

Speak of the DFC right now- today the septics are overflowing into the standing rain water that the peoples children are playing in.
Thats about 300 lots that have been around for over 10 years.
'Empowered' was the word used by government when those lots got approved, Lots of empowered people out there stand in their own excrement.
They are about a mile form the WASA plant, GBE is about 8 miles.

Absolutely right Jesse. When it rains and these areas flood all the septics back up and pollute the standing water around the dwellings. We should learn from our mistakes and repair these projects for the health of the community and make sure that the same mistakes are not made in future developments.

The $5 MILLION boardwalk, football field is a disgrace considering the living conditions of much of the town. That money should have been used for the betterment of the community. 2 or 3 or 4 wrongs dont make a right. We must make sure that these practices do not continue in the future as they have in the past. We must grow up and accept the responsibility for regulating these matters even if we step on a few toes.. With rising water levels worldwide these projects will become critical health problems in the predictable future.

Where is this $5 million boardwalk? Have I walked on it without realizing?

not yet............

I remember awhile back seeing some drawings here shoing a beautiful new boardwalk on the west side of AC. I'm no good with the search function but you could try that or wait for someone to just lump in with the answer.

here ya go, SS......... http://www.ambergristoday.com/html/archives.php?p=072910#_st1
//ambergriscaye.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/384884/1.html

Thanks klc . . . interesting stuff. Of minor note though, what's the use of an improved football field with no bleachers?

Thanks Elbert. I'm sure my grandson will be happy to know that I'm not a troll! I hadn't realized that people were going to such lengths over this issue to make false posts. I'm still looking for more info on the subject and will continue to read on.

gubbie, if you are going to be "reading on", then soon enough, you will understand some of the attitude you've encountered in this thread.

i have been reading this thread because I WAS thinking of buying into the grand belizean estates. Iam so happy I looked here first. I have learned so much about what is going on with land developement and gbe and other like developments. I would to have liked to have bought into gbe and end up with a nice home to retire to in 10 yrs or to visit in the winter. but it is sounding like a big risk and the septic has me very concerned on the small lots.
i appreciate elberts and gubbies exchanges because that is where i learned about the gbe project vs why it sounds like it "could" be a great place to buy. I also learned that once lots are sold who is to say the developers dont pack up and leave and the developement never really happens? I have had septic problems in my own home and I live on 1/2 acre and dont deal with alot of rain! I can understand how a small lot could not possibly be big enough for septic and could overflow easily especially with alot of rainfall. thank you for this blog and the passion you all have to live, love,and care about belize.
I have pretty much given up on finding something that i could invest in belize to eventually retire to in 10 yrs as it scares me to invest there now. I also am naive to why banks dont loan money for buying lots and or longer term mortgages vs the developers being the only party involved in the fincancing? i feel maybe the banks may not want to be responsible when the developments dont actually happen and the developers can just run with investers money with a large down with very short term financing. makes me feel they can run with your money with no repercusions and maybe that is why the banks do not get involved?
So gubbie bought somewhere else on east side of am.caye. but can anyone tell me where someone could buy land in belize that would be a good deal and nice place to live?
there is another development palermo point but no roads. all by boat. There is some land on the mainland but Im not sure about where the safest places are off the am caye???
should i just give up on belize to live?
thanks julianne

Dear Julianne
There are always those selling "swampland in Florida". However, there are also legitimate properties for sale in Belize. Maybe not for $8K a lot (or whatever GBE is selling for these days), but you pretty much get what are willing to risk and pay for.

For anyone really interested in living in Belize and not in a huge hurry to purchase, I would think you should let area realtors know what you are looking for and so they can contact you if something in your price range comes up. I wish you the best in whatever you decide to do

thank you, i wont give up on belize property yet and this blog has opened my eyes! thanks all

In the advertising for GBE they say at least three banks are involved with financing and one of them 100% either Atlantic or Heritage can't remember.

Julieanne,
Thousands of people have successfully bought property on Ambergris Caye and are blissfully happy and secure.
Don't be discouraged.
Ambergris's popularity in recent years has attracted carpetbagging real-estate sharks here to take advantage and the market deserves more caution.
Lots of real people here selling real property, but like the thread title implies, 'Grand Belizean Estates, Too Good to be True'.

julieanne

I shopped for my empty lot and found just what I wanted. Since I wanted to build a house I did not want beach front as I did not want the cost of having it cleaned every day.

I would have liked 2nd lot back but those are harder to come by and cost a little more.
I found the one I now call Birdland in the El Tesoro section of Tres
Cocos. It is 3rd row back, on the main cart path and only one lot across the road on the lagoon.
I wanted the highest point possible to protect me from storm surge.

This lot was for sale by owner and she and I went together to Belmopan and did the title transfer together. She sold the property at exactly the price I wanted to pay so there was no haggling.

It was solid jungle so I marked the trees I wanted saved and paid a local to clear it. I love the place and so do the birds.

Don't give up - but do keep you eyes open. I asked around about the man who was building his house on the lot between me and the sea. No one said anything bad, just that I could probably get it done for less by someone else. I should have listened to what wasn't being said. The good part is that I got to position my building off set from his so I can see the sea from the kitchen window. I could see the lagoon across the street until those neighbors - who built at the same time as me - landscaping took over.

My experience shows that it pays to live here for at least six months before you buy anything.

thank you everyone for your imput. iam still looking around and hope to find something someday, before it is out of my price range. does any one know or heard of sapphire beach on ambergris bay? it seems like a better location than grand belize by far, but again looking on the internet is not where i will get information I can go on 100% just ideas. I was looking at the website but would love to hear from anyone with some insight. I started looking at property in other areas of belize because they have utilities in but the water and something about ambergris caye speaks to me.

You should talk with a good realtor. choose from the MLS and interview a few until you find the one you hit it off with. Then listen to their advice.

Grande, can you let us read some of the Testimonals of the people that were not so happy? It's a bad habit for companies to let you read only the ones they want you read, and guess what.... they are only the good ones.

It's a little disturbing to here about the alleged unethical activity of developers in the area. I suppose you can never really trust "big business" As an lot owner in GBE I am hoping that the building authority will ensure that no one builds on these lots without following building codes that will ensure proper development. If it means holding tanks only for septic, so be it. Personally, I would never build on my lot unless I was comfortable with the way the area was being developed.

Jaric, that's good to know but begs the question. Why did you buy your lot in the first place?

I am planning to retire in a few years and always dreamed of living in a place like Ambergris. I would like to build a small home. I must admit that the reason I chose GBE was the price. It was reasonable enough that I could then build a nice house. I currently live in Canada. I was pleased to see the road go in, but after reading the posts here, I am concerned. Maybe I am a little naive to have expected the building authorities to ensure a sustainable & environmentally friendly development. I will be watching closely as things progress.

What's the latest on Grand Belizean Estates--- Is it turning out to be Heaven or Hell?

Just read through a lot of the older posts about GBE. My husband and I own two lots that he purchased 10 yrs ago. It seems that there was a long pause for anything moving forward in that area, but now a flurry of development near Secret Beach. We continue to watch b/c our retirement is 10+ yrs off.

Our last trip to the area was in Nov 2018. Took the golf cart out to SB and drove past the new off grid home (nice video on YouTube). Definitely activity going on...especially at SB. It looked like something else was being built next to Maruba at Secret Beach. Also, Will Mitchell from Remax responded to one my posts on FB, and he replied that there are more homes like it that will be going up...also investors interested in doing a boutique hotel in the area. I'm guessing that would be closer to SB. Anyway, our lots are just up the road and around the corner from that model. We plan to go back in another year to check out developments in the area again, and also visit his side of the family again in Benque on the west side of the mainland.

There is currently another wooden home being built at lot #231 / parcel #7905 at the Grand Belizean Estates lots.

I posted some pics that were just sent to me of the new off grid home in the photographs section. I love the yellow w/ the white trim on the house.

During our last trip in 2021, we spent a few days on SP. the area up there has developed out a lot since the previous trip in 2018. It would be nice to see a bit more planning going into the area. They just keep clearing lots, selling them, but were are the plans for roads, essential infrastructure, etc?

They can't provide adequate roads and infrastructure for the town of San Pedro itself. Maybe if you're just graduating from kindergarten they'll have the infrastructure you're looking for by the time you're ready to retire.