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http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/MC2W9ND

Survey from Belize Coalition to Save our Natural Heritage

Dear Members:

As you may know, BTIA signed on to the Belize Coalition to Save our Natural Heritage. Many of you wrote in to your Chapter Representatives and BTIA National voicing your view that offshore oil exploration is not a sound developmental direction for Belize. The Chapters all wrote in to BTIA National reiterating your representations with a position against offshore oil exploration and authorizing BTIA to join this coalition.

The Coalition was launched this week June 8th, 2010. As the work to determine an advocacy strategy in this regard moves ahead, the Coalition has drafted a survey. We urge each of you to click on the link below and partiicpate in the survey.


Click Here to Take Survey





The list of the current Coalition members (34) are:

Healthy Reefs for Healthy People Initiative

Citizens Organized for Local Action

Oceana Belize

Belize Audubon Society

Programme for Belize

Association of Protected Areas Management Organizations

Citizens Organized for Local Action

Belize Institute of Environmental Law and Policy

PENINSULA Citizens for Sustainable Development

South Coast Citizens for Sustainable Development

Turneffe Atoll Trust and Turneffe Flats

Friends of Gra Gra Lagoon

Friends of May Flower Bocawina National Park

Friends of Swallow Caye Wildlife Sanctuary

Forest and Marine Reserve Association of Caye Caulker

Sarstoon Temash Institute for Indigenous Management

Steadfast Tourism and Conservation Association

Monkey River Tour Guides Association

Belize Tourism Industry Association

Ambergris Caye Citizens for Sustainable Development.

Southern Environmental Association

Spanish Creek Wildlife Sanctuary

Community Baboon Wildlife Sanctuary Women's Conservation Group

Toledo Institute for Development and Environment

Ya'axché Conservation Trust

Radisson Fort George Hotel

Producciones de la Hamaca

Belize Grass Roots Youth Empowerment Association

Belize Alliance of Conservation NGOs

Society for the Promotion of Eco Cultural Tourism and the Environment

Caye Caulker Youth Environmental Club

People's National Party

Siwa-ban Foundation

The Coral Reef Alliance



Your BTIA Team


Belize based travel specialist
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info@belize-trips.com
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Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
So you believe we could not possibly have a leak or some unexpected accident due to human error?

Never said that, again you try and twist everything.

What I deal in are facts, and not fear and emotion. Every single day Belize produces 5,000 barrels of crude oil. The vast majority of this leaves Big Creek by tanker, sails through the reef and goes off to be refined. Also Belize every single day uses 5,000 barrels of refined oil products (immeasurably more damaging than crude due to additives) and imports all of these by tanker. Given that is an indisputable fact that the overwhelming majority of oil spills worldwide are from oil transport why is not the focus of your protestation on something that is likely to happen, and be immeasurably more damaging, than something that has a miniscule chance of becoming reality??
Oil drilling has never in the past damaged Belize's reefs, yet every year there are multiple occasions of boats running aground, and oil being spilled directly on the reef. Please answer me one question. Based upon the evidence, what do you believe to be more dangerous.
1. Oil being transported in Belizean waters.
2. A drilling rig that pokes a hole (outside the reef) and doesn't find anything
3. A drilling rig that pokes a hole outside the reef and finds oil.
Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
The problem is only one incident would potentially cause catastrophic results. Unfortunately we cannt control everything, especially in our ever changing environment. The fact is about the only people who are in favor of this are those who stand to profit.

If one incident will cause catastrophic results, why do you not protest about oil tankers and the day to day spills from boats and drains that pump pollutants into the sea? Why focus on a non problem?
I agree with you that the only people who favour this are those who profit, such as the Belizean government and the Belizean people amongst others.

Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
Yes I would certainly consider my $50M is that being offered to us all? We would use it to surround all rigs with layers of protection for our environment. Maybe you could just get them to give the money to build our highway.

OK, so now I know where you stand, it is just a question of money
Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
You are very hollow and transparent as all know. You originally said you were working for no one in Belize, just more oil company double talk as you obviously have a dog in this fight. Beating a conservationists rhythm on the head of an oil drum is just not very convincing.

I give my opinion to decision makers when it is asked for. I have never been paid anything for this, nor do I expect to be paid for giving my opinion. Nor have I received anything such as favours or goods in kind from any entity or person in the Belizean government, any oil company with interests in Belize, or any environmental group for anything I have done, supplied or said.
Do not try and portray me as some paid mouthpiece. I reject your accusation of hollowness, but I am totally transparent.
I would also accuse you of misreporting and misrepresentation of what I say, as well as constantly trying to denigrate me when you have shallow and incomplete research. I have been in my field for over 35 years, and know what I am talking about. You are making ill informed comment after a few days of using Google.

Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
Who do you work for? What is your interest in offshore drilling in Belize? Do you really think that you will have the slightest effect on what path the gov takes, what kind of equipment etc?

Mike, you know exactly who I work for. I have told you, and you also published it in these forums. I work for Welltech Group LLC. This is an independent energy consultancy who advises both energy companies and governments.
Yes, I have had, and will continue to think I can have an effect on what path the government of Belize takes, and what equipment is ultimately used.

Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
Maybe the oil companies can try to intimidate the govt but not the people of Belize who may have more clout than you think. Belize is not like most places. Quite often money changes hands and then nothing happens they just take the money and still do as they please. We have a very interesting country.
Now you see, there you are letting your emotions cloud your judgement again. No oil company has intimidated the government. BNE tried to do it by threatening to pull out if the government raised royalties on oil. The government held fast and BNE now pays more royalties. Your jingoistic rhetoric is wasted on me. I know exactly what Belize is like.
Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
Our small size puts politics on a more personal level, we know everyone, their relatives and where they live, True for everybody. You cannt escape your political decisions in this country. Everyone will know what happened and socially that kind of thing can be very embarrassing and they follow you for years being politics is our national sport. In our country private sector is stronger than public sector. We routinely make the govt change its laws, not as much as we wish but we are all heard here. If they dont listen they pay the political price which is the very most important thing to them, not economy or ecology or anything except their political skins. If you really believe it cannt happen here you are a fool sir.
More rhetoric. It is not me who is the fool here
Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
Your oil company double speak is getting boring, do you have any original thoughts?

Two things. If this all bores you, then please do not bother continuing this debate. The other slur about original thought is a bit rich? You do a little searching on Google, misrepresent what you are told, and suddenly you are an expert. Here is an original thought... Stop talking out of your arse, and stop trying to bully me into submission.

Last edited by Rigrat; 06/11/10 03:24 PM.
Joined: Jan 2010
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How about this, I'll set arrange a town meeting and we can debate this in front of the people of San Pedro. You can bring next speaker if you like, anyone will do, Roaring would be fun. Questions from the floor and all that. We will only have room for a few hundred but it will be Mayor and Town Council, probably the minister of tourism, Tour Guides Association, Realtors, SPCCD, SPBA, SP Chamber of Commerce, Green Reef. You like bullying huh, most bullies feel just like you when they get bullied back.
You know the issues and ignore them and pretend we are all extremists because its your only real argument. You know there is always a chance of something going wrong. In Belize stuff goes wrong that goes wrong nowhere else in the world. Its the nature of the place , I dont think its worth taking a chance on considering the state of our govt. More oil that is produced the more that will be transported past the reef and the higher the risk of an accident, as you very well know. The most hazardous of your listed activities is transporting in Belize waters unquestionably. The other two are almost a wash. If its not drilled it wont be transported the more drilling the more transportation and risk as you know. 50 times more drilling means 50 times more chance of transportation accident. I thought that was so obvious as to not need to be mentioned but I suppose it is really the crux of the issue. Generally our boat accidents just tear up a bunch of fiberglass. We do need to be more careful with all pollution of the sea, including our boats. Hard to use that as a justification to drill for oil though.

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Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
How about this, I'll set arrange a town meeting and we can debate this in front of the people of San Pedro. You can bring next speaker if you like, anyone will do, Roaring would be fun. Questions from the floor and all that. We will only have room for a few hundred but it will be Mayor and Town Council, probably the minister of tourism, Tour Guides Association, Realtors, SPCCD, SPBA, SP Chamber of Commerce, Green Reef.

Mike. Again this is very disingenuous. You are perfectly aware that I am on a deep water drilling program in South East Asia, and would not be able to attend. And yet you seem to think that I should drop everything and attend your 'meeting'.
No doubt when I say no thanks, you will shout from the roof tops that I didn't dare, or couldn't be bothered, or was scared that I would be unable to substantiate any facts.
But I have already told you that I would not join in anything that you organised, or were a part of, and would much rather work with the government of Belize in a calm and sensible manner. You firmly believe in trial by newspaper, and megaphone diplomacy. When you are taken to task about your slanted views, you immediately jump up and down and scream insults.
Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
You like bullying huh, most bullies feel just like you when they get bullied back.

I abhor bullying, and I will always, with no exception, go after those who do bully. You have constantly tried to denigrate me since the beginning of this debate, and have posted lies, misrepresentation, and insults. You do this quite gleefully secure in the knowledge that right now, because of the appalling mess in the Gulf, people who are willing to speak up for the benefits of drilling will be shouted down. Not shouted down because their views have no merit, but shouted down by people who have been force fed scary stories by the media (and yourself), and have not been able to obtain a balanced view.
Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
You know the issues and ignore them and pretend we are all extremists because its your only real argument. You know there is always a chance of something going wrong. In Belize stuff goes wrong that goes wrong nowhere else in the world.

Now here we go yet again. Are you trying to suggest that the laws of physics apply differently in Belize? It is an irrational thing to suggest. Belize would be one of the most benign places in the world to drill, and it would be routine.
Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
Its the nature of the place , I dont think its worth taking a chance on considering the state of our govt. More oil that is produced the more that will be transported past the reef and the higher the risk of an accident, as you very well know. The most hazardous of your listed activities is transporting in Belize waters unquestionably. The other two are almost a wash. If its not drilled it wont be transported the more drilling the more transportation and risk as you know. 50 times more drilling means 50 times more chance of transportation accident.

You obviously put zero thought into this didn't you? You blurt out statements without doing proper research.
If Belize did strike oil in the waters outside of the reef, the oil would be produced by an FPSO. The transport would be loaded offshore, and never come near the reef.
Also fifty times more drilling does not in any way shape or form equal fifty times more chance of a transport accident. Where did you get this mathematics? The vast majority of wells drilled don't yield anything more than geological information. Even if everyone of them did strike oil, the amount of transport movements would probably not increase by much, you would just get a bigger tanker.
Originally Posted by Mike Campbell
I thought that was so obvious as to not need to be mentioned but I suppose it is really the crux of the issue. Generally our boat accidents just tear up a bunch of fiberglass. We do need to be more careful with all pollution of the sea, including our boats. Hard to use that as a justification to drill for oil though.

Well it obviously wasn't obvious was it as you got it so badly wrong?


Last edited by Rigrat; 06/12/10 12:30 AM.
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Had I not labored through your long responses I would have no idea who you work for. Since you do not have any information in your profile I clicked on the link you use on your signature line. I had to wonder if you ran BWERT but now you say you are in South Asia. How about giving us more information in your posts. I totally respect people who use their real name on the signature line. It sure gives more credibility.

Personally I came here from California and witnessed way too many animal rescues from even small oil spills. What we are trying to tell the government is that we don't want to RISK any spills nor the damage and unsightlyness of oil drilling.

Last edited by ScubaLdy; 06/12/10 12:49 AM.

Harriette
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Question for Rigrat. There has been much discussion on the risks of having production wells in Belize and I know you have touched briefly on the process of determining the feasibility of doing so. But could you please expand on the process involved and the accuracy of determining the potential reserves.
To me it is a question of risk vs rewards. I don't see how a reasonable person concerned with all that could be good for Belize can determine his position without having a better understanding of the potential rewards.
Granted, there is much hysteria and emphasis put on the risks due to present events, but there are also many countries greatly benefiting from oil and gas that have not suffered from the risks. Understanding that many of those countries do not have a resource like Belize's marine environment to protect which gives Belize reason to put more weight on the risk factor. But I still think the potential of the reward factor needs to be taken into consideration before making a final decision.

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Warren, please dont characterize those that are adamantly opposed to off shore drilling as hysterical. In Belize the environmental concerns over off shore drilling cross all political lines including liberal and conservative. It is a risk reward situation for sure. Somebody wants to write us all a fat check or can show how the benefits would be worth the risks we should hear them out.
I am serious in inviting Rig to a Town meeting. Potentially San Pedro has the most to loose and the least to gain, in my view. Considering our economic impact on the rest of the country we deserve to be heard. In any event both sides should be heard. There are many in San Pedro who are not sure how they feel. I think AT THIS TIME the risks outweigh the rewards. Undoubtedly our oil will be worth more in the future than now and our technology of dealing with spills will have also grown and hopefully our government will have grown in capacities as well. It is the people of Belize that should decide this issue based on facts and San Pedro needs to be heard from on this matter.

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Actually Rig, I somehow thought that you were here now. Internet connects us all over the world. The people of SP are very interested in this matter. Yes I started attacking you from the start in a most hostile and rude way. The only reason I did that was because of the way you, on the other board, had treated good people who care for their country a lot who only wanted to express their opinions and engage in debate over the issue. Several stopped posting for that reason. The way I treated you is the way you treated them. Except I never called you stupid or hysterical or a fudmonger or anything other than a Suzy Creamcheese. I have attempted to get answers from you and mostly you throw around drilling lingo and dont address my concerns or those of tens of thousands of other Belizeans. I know you think you did but I am not convinced. Less heated debate would be more productive. Sorry you cant come, San Pedro has a right to hear all sides and you are a wealth of knowledge, from the industry stand point. I wont insult you if you dont insult me or anyone else that has a different view. Try to acknowledge and address their concerns without talking down to people. Deal?

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This is an intermission!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COeKxO0wL9A
Would be funnier if spill wasnt so horrific


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Mike, one of the definitions of hysteria is a "wild outbreak of emotionalism".
Now if you don't think some are emotional over this issue, then you have a different opinion than me.
Emotions are running high, for very good reasons. I just prefer to become more informed than emotional until I have enough facts to form my opionion.

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